Family reunification - EU law or Danish law?

[mikael]

Hi guys!

I've been trying to research this topic to the bottom to make absolutely sure that we are applying the right way. So I hope that you guys can take the time to look through our case and recommend if we should apply for family reunification under Danish law or EU law?

The case is as follows:

I am Danish, 30 years old and for the past year I have lived and worked in Dublin, Ireland. Naturally I also speak fluently Danish (but I am writing in English so my fiance can understand as well).

Now I have accepted a job offer which means that I will be moving to Copenhagen, Denmark on February 1st. Naturally I want to bring my fiance with me. We have been together for ≈6 months.

My fiance is 29 years old and from Venezuela. For the past ≈2 years she has been living in Dublin on a study visa as she has been studying e-business and improving her English vocabulary. She is journalist by education. Before she came to Dublin she had several good jobs within the radio, newspaper and marketing industries. Her current study visa lasts until June this year.

We want to move to Denmark both at the same time on February 1st and have already got an apartment. Furthermore we want to get married as soon as possible after we've moved to Denmark (regardless of what that means for our application. We are marrying out of love, not law ), so we are expecting to marry probably in February or March.

When we've moved to Denmark I am starting my new job right away. It is a very well paid job so we have no financial constrains. My fiance want to start learning working and learning Danish right away.

As I understand it, if we choose to apply under Danish laws, we should to wait to apply until after we've been married to further our chances. Until we have applied she will be in Denmark only as a tourist so she can't apply for jobs. She can however commence her Danish course but we have to pay for it our self. Within 6 months after our application she needs to pass a Danish test. If she fails she will get a second chance within 3 months. If she fails again she has to leave the country and apply again. Is this correct?

If we want to apply under EU law, we should apply before we actually move regardless that we haven't gotten married yet. I obviously need to prove that I've been living and working in Ireland and I assume that we need some sort of proof as well of our relationship and intentions to remain in that relationship after we've moved to Denmark, right (what kind of proof?)? As soon as we have applied she will be allowed to work in Denmark and we can get her Danish course paid while we wait for a decision. It should be made within 3 months, right? After the application is approved she will have all the same rights as if we got married first and applied through Danish law, right?

As you can read between the lines here, the most important issues for us is that:
- We ensure as best as possible that her application will be successful
- That we don't make any tradeoffs in regards to her rights. We don't want her to be second-class citizen in Denmark.

Is there any thing of the above mentioned, in which I am mistaking? Is there any reason that we should choose to apply under Danish law instead of EU law? Have we forgotten about anything?

Thanks a lot in advance for your time!

Mikael

[mh1]

You cannot apply according to EU-rules, unless you marry BEFORE moving to DK.

You have to be married OR co-living through app. 18 months in order to use EU-rules.

The EU-rules may be advantageous, depending on how easy/difficult it is for you fiance to learn new languages. Under EU-rules she will be almost sure to obtain permanent residence after 5 years, under current Danish rules she may never be able to fulfill the conditions.

[mikael]

According to the documentation on the ministry we can apply on grounds of cohabiting as well? Wouldn't that mean we could apply without being married or having lived together in 18 months?

In such case how do we prove our cohabiting?

[mikael]

And a follow-up question:

We will fly to Denmark on a friday. If we would be so lucky that we could get married in Denmark over the weekend and then go to the ministry of imigration on the monday, would we be able to apply under EU-rules then?

[DBS]

And a follow-up question:

We will fly to Denmark on a friday. If we would be so lucky that we could get married in Denmark over the weekend and then go to the ministry of imigration on the monday, would we be able to apply under EU-rules then?

You cannot apply according to EU-rules, unless you marry BEFORE moving to DK.

You have to be married OR co-living through app. 18 months in order to use EU-rules.

Btw it takes at least 2 weeks to get married
http://aabenraa.dk/forside/om+kommunen/ ... h/marriage
Please read the dnish version also

It may be faster in Vegas

mvh DBS

[skaanebo]

You MUST marry before moving to Denmark or you will not be able to use EU laws at all.

[mikael]

Thanks for the answers so far. So I have one last question:

What if we travel to Denmark as tourists on for instance January 25th and get married that day. Then we leave the country again and a week later we make the actual move to Denmark and apply for family reunification under EU law. In this case we are actually married before we move back. Would that perhaps work for us, or do our marriage have to be from our current home country?

Problem is that in Ireland it takes 3 months to get married, so there is no chance we have time for that before we move.

[fundiver199]

Yes that might work. The important thing is, that you need to have cohabitated as a married cupple in Ireland before moving to Denmark, unless you have cohabited in Ireland as an unmarried cupple for at least 18 month as the rule of thumb. Cohabitating as a married cupple for just only 1 week is definitely a very short time period, but there is no official minimum length of the copabitation period, when you are married, so it might work for you.

I can not give a 100% assurance though, since you will really be testing the borders of the rule set, and thus there are few if any preceding cases to compare with. If you ask for a recommendation, I would probably suggest something like at least a month and not just only a week. So the recommendation really is, that you should have been married by now already, which is probably not very usefull for you to know, but that’s how I see it.

Alternatively you can choose to just accept, that you will not be able to use the EU-rules, even though you have lived in Ireland, and just apply by the normal danish rules. If you fulfill those requirements, that you are unable to do anything about now like the 24-year age limit or not having received kontanthjælp for 3 years, the difference is mainly the housing requirement, a bank deposit of 50.000 kroner, a mandatory danish test, that must be passed after 6-9 month, and more strict requirements for having the residence permit made permanent after 5 years.

How much effort it makes sence to take to avoid these 4 disadvantages of the danish rules could be up for debate, and it will also depend on your specific situation. If none of this seems particularly difficult for you to overcome, then in my point of view it would be a completely legitimate choise to just forget the EU-rules and get married after your arrival in Denmark as originally planned.

The only thing, I would advise against, is to waste time on an EU-application, if you do not fulfill the basic requirement of having cohabited in Ireland as a married cupple for “some” time or as an unmarried cupple for at least 18 month. ÆUG have seen several EU-applications turned down for this reason. And to be honest, it’s a bit of a bummer to say the least, since getting married before moving to Denmark is a very easy requirement to live up to.

[skaanebo]

BTW, have you considered the option of getting married in the UK instead? It might work faster (though I don't really know) and crossing the border between Eire and Northern Ireland should be easy.

Also, if you do decide to marry in Denmark while only visiting, make sure you get your passports stamped that you have returned to Ireland to reside before moving to Denmark.

[mh1]

Getting married in UK as a foreigner is no shortcut, it demands some planning and time.
https://www.gov.uk/marriages-civil-part ... s/overview

But according to this, you can get married very speedily in DK:
http://www.expressheirat.de/

Another option is Gibraltar:
http://www.gibraltar.gov.gi/getting-married

[Melissa]

My husband and I have a different situation, but I am curious about the EU law. We were married in Denmark the end of last year and applied for family reunification under Danish law. Due to misinformaton and some misdirection, our application has been denied because Immigration believes I had been in Denmark more than 90 days since my last first entry at the time of our application. This is all being dealt with as the information and guidance we recieved came from here, and our appeal is based on that information, as well. I hope for a good outcome as my husband is disabled, and also critically ill and can't travel. His illness is the reason we didn't marry and apply right away, by the way. In any case...

My question is this: Does it make sense for us to apply concurrently under EU law? Is there any provision for us? I am an American citizen and he is Danish. We are both over the age of 24, but I don't have an advanced degree.

Any help would be appreciated.

[Melissa]

Also, I should mention that his father lives in Sweden, so there is a possibility we could move there for a short time, if necessary. His medical needs would be covered in that scenario, unlike a trip to the US.

[fundiver199]

Dear Melissa

You can not apply under EU-law, unless you have lived together in another EU-country than Denmark for at least 3 month as a guideline. So you dont have that option now. About moving to Sweden, that is certainly a possibility, if Udlændingenævnet agree with Udlændingestyrelsens weird interpretation of the schengen visa rules, so that your application is finally rejected.

[mh1]

Sorry, no-go.

If your husband is Danish, you cannot apply using EU-law unless you move to Sweden or another EU-country first, and have a period of 'real residence' there. Your basis for residence can be either a EU-residence or a residence permit according to the national rules of the state.

After that you may move back to DK and apply for both DK-residence and EU-residence simultaneously. OR - the safer way: apply for Danish EU-residence before moving to DK and not move until it has been approved.

[Melissa]

Thanks SO much for prompt responses!

I am considering giving up the fight here in Denmark, and returning to the US for three months. After that time, if I go to Sweden with my husband, would the "new" 90 days I get be enough "real residence" time? What are my options for extending that time?

I am loathe to return to the US, simply because my husband is critically ill and can't travel, so I would be going without him. If he weren't ill, we could both enjoy some time abroad as a "vacation" and then come back and try again...