Metock case and the influence on the danish inmigration law

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zandvoortzandvoort
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Re: Metock case and the influence on the danish inmigration

Indlæg af zandvoortzandvoort » 30.03.2011 00:55:32

The Zambrano arrest and its reactions. As you can read is the Commission also planning to try our case too. We are husband,=foreigner and wife,= Dutch, without children. Interesting is it not?

Bron: http://www.irishtimes.com/newspaper/ire ... 79017.html

Source: http://www.cphpost.dk/news/making-the-c ... tacle.html

Source: http://www.economist.com/blogs/blighty/ ... immigrants
The Court of Justice of the European Union and Citizens of the Union: A Revolution Underway? The Zambrano judgment 8 March 2011 Elspeth Guild Centre for Migration Law, Radboud University Nijmegen 2

...
The operative part of the judgment is surprisingly short – only 10 paragraphs. This
may indicate that there was much disagreement among the judges about the legal
issues. On the positive side, this means the case is very clear and there is no space for ambiguity. The key and startling findings of the CJEU are as follows:

• The case of the Zambrano family is a matter of EU law as the children as
Belgian nationals, and therefore also EU citizens, living in Belgium;

• Directive 2004/38 does not apply to them as it only applies to EU citizens who
move and reside in another Member State;

• The rights of the two Zambrano children who are EU citizens comes directly
from Article 20 TFEU (citizenship of the Union);

• Those rights include:
o The right to live in Belgium 40 and 41);
o The right of residence for their third country parents (both of them it
would seem) to live in Belgium with them as this is necessary for the
children who are EU citizens to enjoy their rights as citizens of the
Union (para 42 and 43);
o The right to a work permit for the third country national parents to
support the children (as otherwise they might all have to leave the
state on ground of penury) (para 44).

There is no mention of the EU Charter of Fundamental Rights or the ECHR. These rights for third country nationals derive directly and exclusively from Article 20 FTEU – citizenship of the European Union.
What does this mean? There are two immediate consequences:

• Any third country national family which includes at least one dependent minor child who is an EU citizen, even if that child is the citizen of the state where the family lives, is entitled to rely on the EU child’s rights under Article 20 TFEU to found a residence right in the state. There is no clarity on the form of the residence right.

• The third country national family members of a dependent minor EU national child, even where that child is a national of the state where the family lives, are entitled to work permits.
Both these rights for third country national family members are based on the principle that the dependent minor EU national child might have to leave the territory of the Union in order to accompany his or her parents if those parents were not allowed to reside and work to support the child.
From this logic some corollary issues arise:

• When is a child not a dependent minor child? In the CJEU’s judgment C-480/08
Teixeira interpreting Article 12 Regulation 1612/68, it found for the purposes of that
provision, according to which a child is defined as dependent and under 21 for the
purposes of education rights, that denying the right after the child passed the upper
age limit would deprive the right of its force (para 82) and that even adult children
may need the presence of their parents to successfully access their education rights.

This line of argument could be applied by analogy;

• The same Teixeira judgment found that access to social welfare benefits for the
parent was consistent with caring for the (adult) child in education;
• Does the logic also apply to third country national spouse and other family members?
There does not seem to be any obvious reason why the argument should be any different if the third country national family member were a spouse rather than a child. The CJEU will have a chance to address this in a pending case McCarthy.

9 March 2011
Elspeth Guild

Kim P. Nyberg
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Re: Metock case and the influence on the danish inmigration

Indlæg af Kim P. Nyberg » 30.03.2011 02:01:18

The Zambrano case has been disgussed a lot here on forum, actually. The first time it was mentioned by a profile, was back in November last year. In the first few days after the final judgment, the debate was almost only focused on the Zambrano case.

Especially the range of paragraph 40-42 was disgussed. However, the Danish central administration has some "experts", who can "disarm EU-bombs", as a journalist on national radio has expressed it. They are experts in making a wide-range judgment so narrow, that it might be indeed very hard for anyone here to call upon a EU-Court of Justice ruling.

The funny thing is, that if the ruling of ECJ is in favour of the government, the so-called experts is there to make it as wide as possible. But if the ECJ ruling is not in favour of the government, the experts are there to make it as narrow as possible. Even if the ECJ ruling in itself is wide.

For instance, our new integration secretary, Søren Pind, said on his second day on job, that this Zambrano case can only be used, if BOTH parents are third-country nationals and the children is Danish nationals. In any other case, permit will be denied. That is not exatly the word and spirit in the Zambrano case, right? The paragraph 40-42 is telling about Union Citizens in general speaking, and actually in paragraph 42, the ECJ state that the national authorities are not allowed to take away rights, that the Court has put in the Union Citizenship. Even the Court say that very clearly, Søren Pind disarmed it the very next day.

Anyway, no one knows yet exactly how Denmark will implement Zambrano in national law, so it is still too early to make conclusions on that topic.
Frivillig rådgiver i Ægteskab Uden Grænser

fundiver199
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Re: Metock case and the influence on the danish inmigration

Indlæg af fundiver199 » 30.03.2011 11:11:24

Please note anyone, who might read this, that the EU-commission is not yet finished to deal with the complaint of zandvoortzandvoort:

"If our assessment, once finished, concludes that the Dutch rules requiring common residence of the couple abroad are not in line with EU law..."

zandvoortzandvoort
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Re: Metock case and the influence on the danish inmigration

Indlæg af zandvoortzandvoort » 30.03.2011 11:36:48

@fundiver199: Thats true, but I can assure you that MR xxx has completed it and send it for signing, which has been approved. He confirmed that on the phone and said I would hopefully get it on Wednesday, but surely this week. And than everybody can read, that we won this matter and can than move on with it. As I said, a political party is busy preparing action to repair the case and give us our rights, finally. Believe me, if it were not true I could not have placed it on your site and others here in my country. I too, are impatiently waiting for the letter.
Senest rettet af zandvoortzandvoort 05.04.2011 18:31:32, rettet i alt 1 gang.

fundiver199
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Re: Metock case and the influence on the danish inmigration

Indlæg af fundiver199 » 30.03.2011 12:24:15

When you get the final decision of the EU-commission, could you please scan it and send a copy to the ÆUG board? So that we can use it in our work to influence the danish law and administration. It will of course be handled confidentialy i.e. we will not publish your name anywhere without your permission. The email address is:

info@aegteskabudengraenser.dk

zandvoortzandvoort
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Re: Metock case and the influence on the danish inmigration

Indlæg af zandvoortzandvoort » 31.03.2011 00:29:30

Of course I will do so. And about my name. It is the same name that the Commission will use to show whom brought this matter to their attention. I gave permission. So I don't mind, to send it to you and to be known. This is a very important case and of great influence for us all. Also in your country. I just pray that I get the signed definitive letter any day now?

info@aegteskabudengraenser.dk.
I just send them the mail I got today from the Commission on the matter. Not the final decision though! Could not copy - paste it here, for it is a pdf file. Maby they can do something to copy - paste it, so that mail can be placed here too?

zandvoortzandvoort
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Re: Metock case and the influence on the danish inmigration

Indlæg af zandvoortzandvoort » 31.03.2011 11:56:44

This letter, I got, before we, the attorney at the Commission whom handles it, and myself, had the phone call discussion on this matter. I send the last one to the email address you gave me.

Europese Commissie, 1049 Brussel, BELGIË - Tel. +32 22991111
Kamer: MO59 6/68 - Tel. doorkiesnummer +32 229-9 67 97 - Fax +32 229-7 95 86 JUST-Citizenship@ec.europa.eu
EUROPESE COMMISSIE
DIRECTORAAT-GENERAAL JUSTITIE
Directoraat C: Grondrechten en burgerschap van de Unie
Eenheid C.2: Burgerschap van de Unie
Head of Unit
Brussels, 18 March 2011
JUST/C2/MM/ip (2011) s293963
Dear Ms X.
I refer to your letters, e-mails and phone calls concerning your complaint on refusal by the Dutch authorities to recognize the right of residence under EU law registered under reference number CHAP(2010)xxxx (please quote this reference in any further correspondence).

As indicated in my previous reply of 13 January 2011, your complaint raises complex and novel issues of interpretation of EU law. We are also consulting your complaint internally and evaluating it in the light of the recent ruling of the Court of Justice of the European Union of 8 March 2011 in case C-34/09 Ruiz Zambrano, which provided interpretation about the protection that EU law offers to EU citizens who reside in the Member State of their nationality.
If our assessment, once finished, concludes that the Dutch rules requiring common residence of the couple abroad are not in line with EU law, we will consider launching infringement proceedings against the Netherlands under Article 258 of the Treaty on the Functioning of the European Union (TFEU). Such proceedings take several years before the Court delivers its ruling.
Please note that the role of the Commission is to ensure that Member States comply with their obligations under EU law and, if Member States fail to do so, to compel them to come into line with EU law by instigating proceedings under Article 258 TFEU.

The Commission's role is not to satisfy individual interests EU citizens may see as
threatened by the Member State's alleged unlawful conduct. In this respect, the
Commission's right to launch proceedings under Article 258 TFEU does not provide EU citizens with an additional means of redress. The Commission does not act as an appeal body regarding the misapplication of EU law in individual cases and it enjoys limited authority to carry out investigations. It cannot replace national courts. Only the national courts can award you reparation. I therefore suggest making use of all the means of redress available at national level, which as a rule enable you to assert your rights more directly and more personally.

Yours sincerely,
Chiara xxxx
and Mr xxx
Ref. Ares(2011)301632 - 18/03/2011

With that, a political party whom assisted me from the beginning is to ask questions in the second chamber of our government, to our Minister van Leers, as soon as the final decision is in, to help me as a individual, but there are many couples like me and they too, will get their rights, one,s it is being taken care of.
Senest rettet af zandvoortzandvoort 05.04.2011 17:53:18, rettet i alt 3 gange.

zandvoortzandvoort
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Re: Metock case and the influence on the danish inmigration

Indlæg af zandvoortzandvoort » 31.03.2011 17:43:44

This is how it all started:
I send the complained in June 2010
My complaint registered under CHAP (2010)xxxx
Made by me, in June this year. It was then that the political party came to our rescue.

Mrs. X
aan Ms Viviane.Reding, and Ms Jayne.Morris, her legal adviser.

Details weergeven 29-11-10

Dear Mrs Reding and all else involved,

My name is Mrs. X and I have had the change to get Mrs. Sophie in,t Veld to ask europarlementaire questions and they were answered by Mrs. Reding. Thank you very much for that. I want to ask you to please come to our aid, because the letter with answers from Mrs Reding asked for by Mrs. Sopie in,t Veld, did not matter, or make a change in opinion to those how governing us and we need help to get this to stop. We are really desperate here in Holland, because this problem is affecting so many people now and we are suffering too much, also my family, we don't know what to do anymore. Therefore I am asking you, to please help us?

And these were the answers and questions, one more time:

http://www.europarl.europa.eu/sides/get ... anguage=EN

http://www.europarl.europa.eu/sides/get ... anguage=EN

I called the RRRvS in Den Haag, after receiving the answer's, those whom had rejected our cases upon the ground that we did not stay together in Belgium in 2008 and in England, were I had gained my union rights, years ago. The last court case and judgement because of it, in my country. I never left Europe more than the permitted time and did not lose my rights otherwise. As said, they did recon- ice my EU rights during the court case , but, even though, they did acknowledge my Union rights in court, they take it away from me, simply because my husband and I never stayed in an other member state together!
I am something like a half community servant now! Hopefully after your viewing of the cases,soon to be a whole one!

They, the RRRvS, said that they will not act upon the answers given by Mrs Reding, because they, the highest court in Holland, don't see it that way! For they told me that the man in Singh had lived with his wife in an other member state, before moving back to England. And that is what gave him that right! There opinion is a wrong one, but I cant do anything to that effect, without your help? Read my cases than you will understand the nature of this complaint?

Unfortunately it is not in English. I am sorry for that.
Our casus:
http://jure.nl/bk9765 Multiple chamber
http://www.rechtspraak.nl/ljn.asp?ljn=BN6685 .
Highest court in Holland whom made the final wrong judgement too!

To be continued.
Senest rettet af zandvoortzandvoort 05.04.2011 18:30:30, rettet i alt 1 gang.

zandvoortzandvoort
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Re: Metock case and the influence on the danish inmigration

Indlæg af zandvoortzandvoort » 01.04.2011 16:18:50

To inform you why I am so curious about the outcome of our case on Zambrano, we are a Dutch Union citizen and a Foreign partner, with no children. Could it be because of this reasoning?
This line of argument could be applied by analogy;

• The same Teixeira judgment found that access to social welfare benefits for the
parent was consistent with caring for the (adult) child in education;
• Does the logic also apply to third country national spouse and other family members?
There does not seem to be any obvious reason why the argument should be any different if the third country national family member were a spouse rather than a child. The CJEU will have a chance to address this in a pending case McCarthy.
9 March 2011
Elspeth Guild
• The rights of the two Zambrano children who are EU citizens comes directly
from Article 20 TFEU (citizenship of the Union)
http://www.europarl.europa.eu/ftu/pdf/en//FTU_2.2.pdf
Senest rettet af zandvoortzandvoort 02.04.2011 19:10:15, rettet i alt 3 gange.

zandvoortzandvoort
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Re: Metock case and the influence on the danish inmigration

Indlæg af zandvoortzandvoort » 01.04.2011 16:19:11

fundiver199, I am trying to paste and copy to let you read the letter that I send over to the mail you gave me, but nothing was done, so I am trying to do it my self. It is a pdf file and not to copy and paste! I am still trying. The final letter is not in yet.
This was just the letter to confirm our telephone call in witch he stated that he too had come to the same decision.
Senest rettet af zandvoortzandvoort 01.04.2011 19:02:39, rettet i alt 1 gang.

fundiver199
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Re: Metock case and the influence on the danish inmigration

Indlæg af fundiver199 » 01.04.2011 17:48:03

We goet your email already at the ÆUG board, thank you very much. We will just wait for the final decision of the EU-commission.

zandvoortzandvoort
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Re: Metock case and the influence on the danish inmigration

Indlæg af zandvoortzandvoort » 01.04.2011 18:59:58

That is fine, what do you think about the fact they are trying us on Zambrano too?

zandvoortzandvoort
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Re: Metock case and the influence on the danish inmigration

Indlæg af zandvoortzandvoort » 02.04.2011 18:59:37

Kim P. Nyberg"]The Zambrano case has been disgussed a lot here on forum, actually. The first time it was mentioned by a profile, was back in November last year. In the first few days after the final judgment, the debate was almost only focused on the Zambrano case.
I don't know why, but I cant seem to find that discussion? I guess it was in Danisch language than?

fundiver199
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Re: Metock case and the influence on the danish inmigration

Indlæg af fundiver199 » 02.04.2011 19:12:17

zandvoortzandvoort skrev:That is fine, what do you think about the fact they are trying us on Zambrano too?
I think it is very much an open question, how Zambrano will be interpreted, and I also think that a lot of political talk is going on between the EU-commission and various governments on this subject.

zandvoortzandvoort
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Re: Metock case and the influence on the danish inmigration

Indlæg af zandvoortzandvoort » 02.04.2011 19:25:55

fundiver199 skrev:
zandvoortzandvoort skrev:That is fine, what do you think about the fact they are trying us on Zambrano too?
I think it is very much an open question, how Zambrano will be interpreted, and I also think that a lot of political talk is going on between the EU-commission and various governments on this subject.
I don't think so. because if that were the case, than they would have to know of the opposite opinion on the Arrest? Don't you agree, that what ever is the case, the fact that they are trying my case is a conformation on that opinion? There is now way they can be in communication on that from Redings office to any government. That is not done. No, they are on our side and do not play along with those imposters! Claiming to follow, implement and execute, the agreements, they them self signed, when the Euro notes were shining in their eyes! They are only forgot to realize that we, the citizens are the motor of their Economy! And that we were given rights that don't decline just because we marred, or having a partner from outside the Union! Too bad, I keep fighting for all of our rights. Will be followed up, be sure of that.
Senest rettet af zandvoortzandvoort 03.04.2011 11:59:03, rettet i alt 2 gange.

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