Ægteskabudengrænser.dk

Hi everybody!

My American work colleague's Danish husband threw her out of the house about a year and a half ago. (Don't ask me why - she is the sweetest lady you could ever want to know.) She is nearing retirement age and has to think about her American Social Security benefits and the impact it would have if she is still married to him or if he passes away before they are divorced. There is a previous husband's social security record in the equation.

The current husband is using their unofficial separation as a means of getting all kinds of benefits from the kommune, but at the same time, when he underpays his taxes, she has to pay them, because they do not have an official divorce.

So now she wants to make it legal, and when she went to the kommune, she heard that he also has to agree to the separation and sign it.

What happens if he does not agree and will not sign? I suggested she threaten to move in with him again - after all, it was him that wanted her out, she still loves him very much. But he is just using her and the current situation to make the most of his retirement age. He is quite old and somewhat ill and thinks he will die at any moment.

If he will not sign, could she still get a separation and divorce after a period of time?

Also, why is she liable for his taxes, but he can get subsidies from the kommune based on the fact that she is not living with him? She doesn't get any subsidies because she is still working full-time.

I am asking on her behalf because she is not completely well-versed on getting around on the computer.

She CAN get separated and divorced, whether her husband wants to or not.

She can read the info about how to do it, in English, here: http://www.statsforvaltningen.dk/site.aspx?p=6396

The short version is: use the link, then the link to "Fill in an application for separation or divorce", then fill in the appropriate form and wait. The fee for applying is 900 DKK.

If her husband will not cooperate, the case has to go to court. If your friend does not have a good income (over 399.000 DKK/year), she may qualify for a free attorney. The conditions for that, and how to apply (unfortunately only in Danish): http://www.civilstyrelsen.dk/Fri_proces/fri_proces.aspx

(some general info on legal aid here: http://www.civilstyrelsen.dk/Fri_proces/English.aspx)

I can't quite understand what there is to love about him, but then that's not really relevant.

Thank you so much, mh. I'm sure she can use the information, and if she has any trouble understanding any of it, I can interpret for her or look it up.

Another development that can complicate things for my colleague:

The husband gets sick and can't take care of himself and also can't take care of the house and starting a fire for heat in the winter, so he moves in with her for the winter. Her apartment has remote heating. She kind of takes care of him when she's not at work, and her daughter who lives nearby also helps out.

He did this last winter and now he's moved in with her again this winter. He has now openly stated that it is his plan to stay with her until it gets warm and then he goes back to the house. She and the kids are trying to get him to move to an apartment in town near the rest of the family, but he won't hear of it. And the house has to be sold first anyway and as you know, real estate is moving very slow these days.

So the question is, will these periods of staying in her apartment count against the two years needed to get a divorce without his consent and without an official separation? He doesn't change his address in the central person register. He just moves in and out. Her address however is changed to her new address at her apartment ever since she moved out.

I still think she should threaten to move back in with him in the house, but she doesn't want to live there anyway because she can't take care of the heating in the winter.
Well, at least he walks her dog when she is at work.

Well, yes - it would be lying to say that they have not lived together, and although it takes somewhat more to be cohabiting in the sense of the Marriage Act than it does in the sense of the 'Active Act' or 'Pension Act', still ... especially if their finances are not completely separate, that is: does he buy and cook his own meals, does he use the facilities in her home, such as laundry machine (or have her wash his clothes), do they share the bed? If yes to all of this, then they ARE living together in the eyes of the law. It does not depend on whether they have a sex life.

If her husband has continued to take social benefits as single he is committing a fraud, and could be finding himself in court because of that.

If she truly wants to get out of that marriage, she should not have let him move in. He does not have any right to it, as according to Danish law one is not required to live together with one's spouse.

For her own benefit she should apply for separation. Her husband cannot oppose that, as long as she does not let him into her home.

Now you don't write how long your friend has lived in DK, but she will probably be entitled to at least partial old-age Danish pension. She must have lived in DK at least 10 years after her 15th birthday and at least 5 of them before she turns 65 - 67 (depending on her birthdate) and still live in DK at that time. To have a right to full Danish pension she must have lived in DK 40 years after her 15th birthday.

There is an agreement between DK and USA about pension rights etc. which maybe you should study: http://www.ssa.gov/international/Agreem ... nmark.html

Well, she is definitely not letting him sleep in her bed! She has a spare room with a bed that he uses. He has to make his own meals because his eating schedule does not mesh with her work schedule and when she gets home to eat, and he has to take food with his medicine, which is on a certain schedule. We work the afternoon-evening shift so we don't get off until about eight o'clock. But I don't know whether he buys any of his own food, or if he contributes anything toward it.

I don't know about laundry, but he does use her apartment as if it is his own, and she drives him places once in awhile. He's being a real a-h**e and she's just letting him walk all over her. She says she will make him start paying rent when he stays there, but that's a new idea she hasn't tried yet.

So it sounds like she would have a real problem getting a separation and/or divorce any time soon. She'll be 64 in a couple of months, and has lived here in Denmark now for 17 years. Whether she has been working the whole time I don't know. But she has lived in another EU country as well with her first husband, and they were together for a little over 10 years. I don't know how many of those years were in the U.S.

But the question of retirement benefits is exactly why this whole discussion has come up. She found out by accident that the best thing for her would probably be to collect off her first husband's record because he made bu-cu bucks and there is something with veterans benefits, but she can't do that as long as she is married to the second husband. Time is against her and she needs to make a decision fast, and it's difficult because the family is still very close. So whenever the current husband gets sick and has to go to the hospital and then has to convalesce somewhere, it has to be at her place. Because they are still married, he can't get any help from the kommune with nursing home or home help or anything like that. But he can still get subsidies on his medications because they just take his word for it that she left him. I don't understand how this can be, why they haven't realized yet that he is still married as far as medication subsidies go. And I don't know what other benefits he is getting, she just says he is getting all kinds of benefits. But obviously he can't get them all because there are different systems administrating them.

And I don't understand why he can't go to the nursing home to recover. He really needs to be somewhere where there are medical personnel in case he falls or has trouble getting up and about as sometimes happens. He has days where he has to lie in bed all day, and other days he can get out and walk the dog.

How could they find out he is committing fraud? I don't think she would have the heart to tell them, nor their kids either.

Problem is, it wasn't her that wanted out of the marriage, it was him. But he only wants distance from her, and he wants her around when he needs her. He doesn't really want to go all the way with a divorce. It's hard for me to advise her because she is the type that would do everything she can to help someone in need, even if they are taking advantage of her and keeping her in limbo. She only wants a divorce now because of the retirement benefits.

But I can at least tell her the facts, that she will have trouble getting a divorce if she lets him stay with her, if he will not agree to it. And she will need to find out from Social Security all the ramifications and possibilities. She is supposed to be contacting them but I just don't know the current status of that. It's sometimes difficult to get to talk with her alone at the workplace.

I'm rambling...

Your friend will then be entitled to begin to take DK pension next year. If she wants and is working she can delay until she is 70, which is advisable if she is able to continue working, as it would give her at least 20/40, or half Danish pension. BUT it would be better if she is single once she starts taking it, as the pension for married and/or cohabiting persons is less.

And by the way: I think there is something wrong about the tax problem. It is only if SKAT (IRS) can't get the un-paid tax from the debtor himself that they may and can take it from the spouse. They have to levy execution in his assets or get proof that he has no assets, before they can attack his spouse.

And by the way: I think there is something wrong about the tax problem. It is only if SKAT (IRS) can't get the un-paid tax from the debtor himself that they may and can take it from the spouse. They have to levy execution in his assets or get proof that he has no assets, before they can attack his spouse.

Evidently they did because they put it on her tax statement and threatened to take it out of her wages. It was the Danish tax authorities, not the American. They said because they are married, that they have the obligation to support one another, and if he falls short, she has to pay the difference. It's something new in the last couple of years, that they automatically transfer the shortfall to the one who has the most income. In the same way they automatically transfer all my husband's personal exemption (he has no income) and his deficit in income (the mortgage is in his name) to me, so only one of us has to receive the refund or pay the deficit, whichever applies. It used to be that he would get a huge refund and I would come up owing and the accounts were treated separately.

So I don't understand why she has the obligation to support him when he owes taxes, but not when he applies for subsidies on his prescriptions, just because he told them that she left him, which wasn't true. He threw her out.

Regarding the subsidies, it does not really matter WHY a couple is not living together, the important thing is that they don't.

Tax is different. SKAT takes what it can, regardless. But it has been known to happen that they take more than what they have a right to - but they are a formidable opponent, so to win against them takes thorough knowledge of the rules and tenacity. Your friend ought to get a formal separation. They live in DK, there is a social security system to take care of her apparently ungrateful leech of a husband, so he will not be reduced to living in a cardboard box if she does decide to look out for herself first.

Tax is different. SKAT takes what it can, regardless.

Thank you, mh, that explains it. I will tell her that she needs to put him out of her place and get her separation and divorce started as soon as possible if she wants to retire on her first husband's record and veterans benefits. It would really be the best for her because she did not work that much in the U.S. herself. And that it would be best for her current husband, because then he can get help from the kommune.

It really sucks that divorce is rewarded and staying in a marriage is punished. It's hard enough to stay married without all these external factors. Men are from Mars, you know....

Thank you for your help and perspective.