Ægteskabudengrænser.dk

Hello everyone

This is my first post here. I understand and speak Danish, but I feel more confident writing in English, specially when I am upset (which I am very much now). You can reply in Danish if you prefer or cross post this in the Danish section.

A little background:
My husband and I have been married since 1997. He is a Dane and I am Brazilian. We lived in Denmark for the first 4 years of our marriage, where we had our first two children. Since then we have lived in the USA (5 years) and in England (6 years), for my husband's education and job. We have been wanting to come home to Denmark for years, but only this year it was possible.

Well, imagine our shock when we were told that would not get one single øre of børnefamilieydelse thanks to the horrendous law DF made sure to get passed in 2011. More about it HERE

I wrote a klage and my husband called them. We asked them to explain how in the world this applies to him as a Danish citizen, by birth ad ethnicity and everything else: Optjeningsprincippet skal sikre, at modtagere af de nævne ydelser skal have en reel tilknytning til det danske samfund for at kunne opnå den fulde ydelse and they did not have an answer. We also asked them how this regulation in any way respected the law of free movement in the EU, considering that a person coming from another EU country was not allowed to receive child tax credit for the kids (something that even the USA has). We are essentially being punished for having moved from another EU country, when the EU is the only reason why they granted me a visa in the first place (by the way, it took 5 freaking months after 15 years of marriage and 6 kids!). In England we were given the same tax breaks and benefits as English citizens BECAUSE my husband was a EU citizen!

It has always made me ill that so many people in Denmark have this attitude about børnefamilieydelse, that it is a gift. Do people have any idea AT ALL how much it costs to raise children, particularly in a country as expensive as Denmark? Anyway, because børnefamilieydelse is seen as a gift, people did not bat an eye when DF pushed for it to be something you have to earn, like a pension. There are tax discounts for all variety of reasons, and there was one for children... until they started the børnecheck, which ironically was introduced so kids of parents of all incomes would have the same help.

So yeah, we are broke and desperate. My husband works from 6am until 4pm everyday + Saturdays, but what he makes is not much. I am working on getting a driver's license (we live in the middle of nowhere) and have been looking for work, but nothing. We live VERY cheap (3000 crowns a month for rent) and are VERY frugal. Yet, we won't have money to cover everything next month. Car tax and car insurance for example: how is my husband supposed to get to work? Clothes for the kids? We won't even be able to afford to buy used clothes. How are we going to pay for rent and utilities? After we eat, there will be almost no money for phone, electricity etc. I went into the kommune to ask about kontanthjaelp, but I don't qualify because my husband makes "too much". You see, they only consider the spouse, and not the kids in their calculations because all kids get børnepenge. We don't qualify for boligsikring either. We had not worried for our kids, because we assumed that their børnefamilieydelse would cover all their necessities. My husband is devastated as to how his country let him down.

Can it be that Denmark is fine with the thought that kids are going to be subject to serious poverty even though their parents work, because of a law created to hurt foreigners? And what would they say if they knew that they are harming Danish citizens?

We are desperate. Please spread the word about our case. Who can we talk to? Politicians, lawyers, news? Nobody is helping and we have nowhere to go!

Well the first rules that apply are the ones you can read here, and the ones which have been used:
https://www.borger.dk/Sider/Boerne-unge ... andet.aspx
your husband has to have been in DK for
- 6 måneder for at have optjent ret til 25 pct. af den fulde ydelse
- 1 år for at have optjent ret til 50 pct. af den fulde ydelse
- 1,5 år for at have optjent ret til 75 pct. af den fulde ydelse
- 2 år for at have optjent ret til den fulde ydelse.

There is another set of rules:
https://www.retsinformation.dk/Forms/R0 ... ?id=130670

Very confusing to read, but the short version is that an EU-citizen who works in DK has a right to Danish børneydelse, whether his/her children are in DK or in another EU-country.

I cannot promise you 100% that it is certain that your family is entitled under this set of rules, but I cannot imagine that a British citizen who comes to DK to work with his foreign spouse and 6 children is entitled to the børneydelse, but your husband who UNDISPUTABLY is an EU-citizen is not.

Write another complaint and stress that you (= your husband) wish to apply as an EU-citizen working in DK.

I am uncertain about whether an EU-citizen can only get the Danish børneydelse, if (s)he is only working, but not living in DK - I have a suspicion that this is on purpose not clearly explained anywhere where I have tried to find it.

The problem is the law itself, and unfortunatly it does not seem like, the government is willing to change it, despite the fact that all three parties voted against it, when it was approved in december 2010. ÆUG has tried to influence the government but without any success. You could try to get the media or some politicians interested in your case, but if this will result in anything is uncertain.

As I recall, this law was made, after the news was writing about EU citizens (from polen), working in Denmark, and at that time got the full amount from day one.

DBS

No, DBS, the rule can have been directed to THAT problem, because all EU-citizens who are working and paying tax in DK still have the right to child benefits from DK. As I recall it it was meant as a further deterrent, that is: to make it unattractive for non-EU foreigners to come and settle in DK at all.

I found this:

http://workinsilkeborg.silkeborgkommune ... d+benefits
“To be eligible for child benefits the parent and child must live in Denmark. Moreover, the child must neither be married nor supported by the public authorities and the child or one of the parents must be a Danish citizen or have lived in Denmark for one year (three years in case of special child benefits). The latter condition does not apply to refugees with a residence permit, Nordic citizens, EU/EAA citizens or citizens from Switzerland. If you no longer meet these conditions, you must inform Udbetaling Denmark at once. Otherwise, you must pay back the benefit.”

I thought we was talking børnefamileydelse, but from your link it looks like you are talking about børnetilskud.

DBS

mh skrev:Well the first rules that apply are the ones you can read here, and the ones which have been used:
https://www.borger.dk/Sider/Boerne-unge ... andet.aspx
your husband has to have been in DK for
- 6 måneder for at have optjent ret til 25 pct. af den fulde ydelse
- 1 år for at have optjent ret til 50 pct. af den fulde ydelse
- 1,5 år for at have optjent ret til 75 pct. af den fulde ydelse
- 2 år for at have optjent ret til den fulde ydelse.

There is another set of rules:
https://www.retsinformation.dk/Forms/R0 ... ?id=130670

Very confusing to read, but the short version is that an EU-citizen who works in DK has a right to Danish børneydelse, whether his/her children are in DK or in another EU-country.

I cannot promise you 100% that it is certain that your family is entitled under this set of rules, but I cannot imagine that a British citizen who comes to DK to work with his foreign spouse and 6 children is entitled to the børneydelse, but your husband who UNDISPUTABLY is an EU-citizen is not.

Write another complaint and stress that you (= your husband) wish to apply as an EU-citizen working in DK.

Very interesting indeed! Thank you very much!
It is indeed VERY confusing to read, but it seems to me that this set of rules clearly contradicts the ones they are using against us.
The main point in my letter was this whole EU situation. I quoted the paragraph citing free movement of EU citizens between EU countries, and said that their new regulation made such movement nearly impossible for a family like ours (I made more sense in my letter). I was not aware of the regulation you quoted, dated around the same time of the new boernepenge law.

The latest news is that they said they should have counted the optjening from the day my husband arrived (June), not from when when the kids and I arrived (October). Incredible incompetence if you ask me: all they needed to do was to click his cpr nr. That means that we qualify for 25% now. We told them that we still wish that our complaint be brought forward because we believe that our appeal for 100% has merit. We will write yet another letter to be added to our case mentioning the regulation you linked to.

@ DBS, I don't know who you are commenting, but I, and I think also storfamilie, are talking about børneydelsen. 'Børnebidrag' of course is out of the question.

@ storfamilie - the more I think about it, the more certain I become that you should be entitled to the full 'børneydelse' from when your husband arrived in DK and began to work - actually he should have been receiving them while you + kids were still in England!

Since it is clearly the case that a Polish worker who is working in DK and has left his wife + kids in Poland can receive full børneydelse, so should your husband have been receiving them.

Logically it must be the same as the family reunion rules; EU-rules completely overrules Danish national rules in that area.

Which 'kommune' do you live in?

mh

Yes, I am talking about børneydelsen. We live in Lemvig.

Could you please tell me more about this Polish man? Any links about the case?
I am wondering though, when did he arrive in Denmark? I am guessing before 2012. If he had arrived in Denmark in 2012, wouldn't the optjeningspricipiet have been enforced? Or would the EU regulation for lige behandling have overruled that?

The incompetence or misinformation of the people we talk to is astounding. My husband had to read the second paragraph of the link I quoted originally to a woman at Betaling DK. She had denied that the optjeningspricipiet was to prove links to the country. He asked her "Why I, as a Danish citizen by birth and ethnicity should have to prove links? My only links are in Denmark!" When she was confronted with that information, she said "Well, you have to thank DF for it then. I don't know what to say"

I am thinking that if they deny our claim, we should escalate it to the EU somehow because they are clearly breaking the rules of equal treatment. We just don't know how.

Edited: mh when it comes to getting børneydelsen from the time HE arrived, I don't think we could. My husband moved in June to find a home and a job, and I went to stay with my parents in Brazil on an extended summer vacation until he did. We could only come in October (by the way, my visa only arrived 2 weeks AfTER that, even though we applied through the EU rules and we had 15 years of marriage and 6 kids - baffling!) We never took residence in Brazil (I don't even have any basic Brazilian documentation for residence besides my passport because I married at the age of 19). However, the Danish government would see us as having lived outside an EU country, no? Surely they would not have given my husband børneydelsen until we arrived.

No, EU-citizens are STILL entitled to børneydelse, when they are working in DK.
http://www.dr.dk/Nyheder/Indland/2012/01/30/072840.htm

There doesn't seem to be any free legal aid office in Lemvig, but here you can find a list over those there are in DK:
http://www.kritiskretshjaelp.dk/gratis-retshjaelp

They can probably help you write a complaint and to be sure that you get all the right arguments in it.

I will look into it - thanks!

In the news report you linked, they mentioned the optjernings thing.

What upsets me is that they said in the original letter: "You have right to børnefamilieydelse!" And then in the small print they said "25% in July" So they can claim that the Danish law is not breaking EU rules of ligestilling of EU members. Who cares it takes 2 years, and in those 2 years people from the EU working here have to suffer?

That's right, I hadn't read it, just hastened to post it.

Well, at least Lemvig has realised that you became entitled to the 25% already about 1 month after you and the kids arrived in DK.

I just want to warn you that when you have your child in one quarter, then you will not get the børneydelse until the following quarter. The 'missing' quarter will be paid in the other end, when the child maybe is already over 18. I suspect the same is valid for when you qualify - you will therefore most likely not get for the last quarter of 2012, since you qualified after 30th of September.

The best time to have your kids in DK is around the 31st of December, 31st of march, 30th of June and 30th of September.

what u are going through is really sad ..u should know that denmark is the only country in the world that makes such violations of human rights and put such rules only to hurt forgeiners as you said and they are even ready to let ur child starving or ur husband even if he is danish just to punish him coz he decided to get married to non danish person ...you should also know that you are lucky coz u are have the right to stay with ur husband coz there are thousands of danes now who are married and they cna not get their spousses to be with them coz if the non-human requirements for family renufication..my question is now..where the hell is the european human rights organazations and all these shit organazation who are always intervening in other non western countries affairs and now when it comes to a country that makes the biggest human rights violations in the world they all shut up ..why denmark gives more rights to refugees and not to danish citizens who decided to get married to a forgein spouse ? fake democracy and hypocracy

Hold on now - this rule applies to ALL NATIONALITIES - if a through and through Danish couple have spent some years abroad, they come under the exact same rules as a mixed or foreign couple.

Denmark is paying about twice as much in child benefits as Canada and USA, 5 times as much as Spain, and 17 times as much as Greece. (http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/politic ... world.html )

I really cannot understand why you are still in DK jayoma, when it is such a bad place in your opinion.