Ægteskabudengrænser.dk

hi every member of this useful website..hope your all doing great ..
i really need your help ..am married to a danish gurl who is 22 old ..we applied for family reunification under the old law (point system) and after 3 months they refused us saying that my attachment to Denmark is not enough : they said that i have to visit the country for 2 times and get danish test A1.i did not go back to my country because the new family reunification will make it impossible for us coz of the 24 years law.so i complained and made an appeal to the ministry of justice and i was studying danish myself home and passed this A1 in Randers Sprog Center and i sent it to the ministry of justice and i have been here in denmark now for 1 year and 2 months .my questions is : will the ministry of justice refuse me again on these 2 visits or being here in denmark for 1 year and 2 months equals this 2 vists (6 months)? and thanks in advance for your answers

The rules have been changed, and since the refusal of your former application was apparently 'by the book' and the fact that even though you NOW fulfill one more demand, in my opinion you will be considered according to the rules which apply now.

According to the current rules one visit in DK is enough, but the downside is that the 24-year rule has been tightened so that you cannot get around it by earning points - only if your spouse has a job on the 'positive list', or is a refugee, severely ill/handicapped or you have children who are about 6-7 years old.

thanks MH for the answer..i understood what you said but the immigration service told us that old cases will be treated under the old law..which means that they can not treat our case according to the new law untill we ask them for it and ofcourse we will not do so coz my wife is not 24 years old ..so they have to treat our case as they told us according to the old law of pint system ..the only problem actually we have is that attachment coz we will fulfill the other criterias of point system ..anyways thanks for your answer..it was nice of u

jayoma skrev:thanks MH for the answer..i understood what you said but the immigration service told us that old cases will be treated under the old law..which means that they can not treat our case according to the new law untill we ask them for it and ofcourse we will not do so coz my wife is not 24 years old ..so they have to treat our case as they told us according to the old law of pint system ..the only problem actually we have is that attachment coz we will fulfill the other criterias of point system ..anyways thanks for your answer..it was nice of u

That is also right that old cases will be treated under the old law. But according to what you write yourself, no errors was made processing your old application, and you refusal was therefore by the book, so what did you state as the cause of the appeal to the ministry of justice?

That you have afterwards studied danish and passed the A1 test, does not influence your old application. You have to meet the requirements when you hand in the application (except for the 24 year rule, where an application can be handed in 6 months before).
The application, at the time of the refusal, was processed by the rules at that time. You cannot then just afterwards take a test, and then apply by the old rules again, and append the test.

hi søren ..thanks for ur answer and ur help..actually the reason why they refused my application was that I have not been in denmark for 2 visits and that i did not take that tes A1: i appealed to the ministry of justice and ofcourse they will check the attachment if it is still the same or its changed and they will find after examining my case that it is changed coz i sent them A1 that i took and my stay in denmark for more than 1 year and 2 months now equals the 2 visit they are asking about .i appealed 8 months ago and this december we will get an answer and my hope is that ministry of justice will say that the attchment now is okay and then they will send it back to the immigration service and they will check again other critireas .

You miss the point Søren made. The point is: Did you meet the requirements at the time your application was rejected or didn't you? If you had spent at least 6 months in Denmark by the time your application was rejected and at the same time passed the language test, obviously the authorities have made a mistake. But if you only fulfil those requirements later, then the decision was correct at the time and nothing can change it, not even the fact that you have since fulfilled those requirements.

@ jayoma,

let's say that first of June 2012 you drove a car without having a driver's license. You were stopped by the police, and a case was opened against you for driving without a license. Because there are lots of cases of more importance it took 6 months before your case came to court. You passed the drivers test first of October 2012 and got your license. Now can you claim in court that you HAD this license when the police stopped you first of June 2012? Of course not.

Your application will be reviewed on the exact same basis as it was the first time. It will be found that the refusal was correct, because you did not fulfill the requirements at the time of application. End of case.

It is possible that your case will also be examined for whether you fulfill the PRESENT requirements (in order to save time for both the administration and you), but you do not fulfill them either.

big thanks both skaanebo and mh ..yes i got it and i understood what you said ..but why the ministry of justice is accepting our new files and they also told us to ask the family members of my wife to write letters to support her as it will be a Plus for our attchment before they decide ...if they will judge from the first application we gave them, then they wont tell us that we can send other files. they will just tell us that u have no right to add any more stuff to ur application now untill we decide but they did not ...and what you guys are saying ; is there any proof from someone or its just a personal opinion about it ? thanks again everybody and looking forward to your useful answers

jayoma skrev:big thanks both skaanebo and mh ..yes i got it and i understood what you said ..but why the ministry of justice is accepting our new files and they also told us to ask the family members of my wife to write letters to support her as it will be a Plus for our attchment before they decide ...if they will judge from the first application we gave them, then they wont tell us that we can send other files. they will just tell us that u have no right to add any more stuff to ur application now untill we decide but they did not ...

The whole point of an appeal is to have the case looked at by "new", eyes. They will accept ANY additional attachments that you feel you want to add to the case, and my guess to why you where told to attach letters of support and all of that, is for the ministry of justice to be able to evaluate of you should have dispensation from any of the rules. Nothing you have told so far will give you dispensation from the rules.

The fact that you are allowed to attach additional document, does NOT mean that any of these documents will have any effect on the outcome of the case.

The facts of your case (if i understand it correct) are:
1) You applied under the old rules (that must then have been before may 15. as far as i remember the date of the new rules)
2) You did not live up to the requirements for the old rules at the time you applied.
3) You got denied under the old rules, as you did not meet the requirements.
4) You appeal the decision, wanting to have your case processed under the old rules, and to support that, you are including documents for skills that you have only gained after the rules changed.

Cant you see that it does not make sense that your application should not be evaluated based on skills that you did not have at the time of your original application?

Imaging this.
If you where in a country where it was illegal to drink beer before you are 18, and you get caught drinking 2 days before you turn 18, then you cannot expect that the judge will now take into evidence that you are now 18, so the thing you are being fined for, is now legal. It was not legal at the time you got caught.
I know that applying without meeting the requirements is not illegal, so it is just to setup something to compare.

jayoma skrev:and what you guys are saying ; is there any proof from someone or its just a personal opinion about it ? thanks again everybody and looking forward to your useful answers

Well this is the same way in most countries in the world.
But in the case of some of the people that have answered your question allready, then it is based on many years experience answering excatly the kind of questions that you ask here, and maybe without you knowing it, you have also gotten advice from a lawyer with is specialized in exactly this field (and no...It is not me). A service that would normally cost you a couple of 1000 kr, if you went to a lawyer yourself...Now isn't that service for you

I do not think you will find that anyone here finds the current rules fair, and that is the reason why some of us use our freetime answering these questions. We do actually not have a hidden agenda, and we do not have a wish for your application to be denied. But we will answer you as truthfully as we can, even when the answer is not what you want to hear.

mh skrev:Your application will be reviewed on the exact same basis as it was the first time. It will be found that the refusal was correct, because you did not fulfill the requirements at the time of application. End of case.

Actually that is not quite true. If a case is denied on the grounds, that the applicant is only 22 years old, and a complaint is then filed to Minestry of Justice, if they work slow enough, time will pass and suddenly the applicant is 24 years old. And then the case will be send back to Udlændingestyrelsen for continued processing as the 24-year rule is now fullfilled.

According to Udlændingestyrelsen this happens quite often, and it is also quite common, that cases are send back to them, because more than 3 years have now passed, since the reference person received social benefit (kontanthjælp). And if the applicant has been staying in Denmark during the processing of the case, this will also help to fullfill the attachment demand and could therefore lead to a similar outcome.

However if it has only been a processual stay, this can to my knowledge not be counted in fulfilling the attachment demand. So if Jayoma has entered on a 90 day visa and stayed here since on a processual stay, the attachment demand under the old rules is still not fulfilled, and Minestry of Justice will not send the case back to Udlændingestyrelsen.

There is therefore in all likelyhood no other options than:

1) Go home and apply for some other kind of residence permit to study or work in Denmark
2) Go home and apply for family reunification again, when Jayoma is 23½ years old
3) Move to another EU-country with his wife, who is a danish citizen, taking advantage of her right to free movement in the EU

thank you guys ..I appreciate all your answers ..your answers are actually logical but am really lost coz my wife called the ministry of justice this morning and she told them about all what u guys said and the woman there said that it is not true and that we will take in consideration all these papers we sent and even me being here in denmark for all this long time ...again what you guys said is so logical and its how it should be working all over the world but maybe with other cases not with immigration cases ..anyways am really tired of this situation and this dicriminatory requirements that old danish gouvernment made and even this new gouvernment they have no right to tell people when to get married (24 old)..i wonder why those organizations who are stopping me everyday in the streets like Amnesty do not intervene together with united nations and all world of human rights against such racism and they put such obstacles only for some countries ..fake democracy ...a refugee has more right in denmark that a danish person hhh what a joke ..another question guys : my wife will be 23 next june so when should i apply under the new rules ? i heard i will when she is 23 and 6 months ..is that true ?..thanks again for every single answer and thanks to the lawyers here and to the normal people coz i feel that some answers are from well experienced people in this domain..have a nice day all of you

Yes you can apply when your wife is 23 years and 6 month. The residence permit will then be valid from the day she have her 24 birthday, in case the application is processed before that date.

tak skal du have søren og tak skal i have alle samen(fundiver199+mh) for de dyrebare råd og oplysninger..det var rigtig pænt af jer.

jayoma skrev:a refugee has more right in denmark that a danish person hhh what a joke

This might be a bit off topic, but since this is a fairly wide spread misconception, I would like to comment on it. A refugee do not have more rights in Denmark than a danish citizen. In both cases it is evaluated, if there are serious obstacles for the spouses to live together in the applicants home country or country of residence, if these are different. And if that is the case, a residence permit will be granted, so they can live together in Denmark.

If a refugee left his spouse behind, when he fled his home country, it is obviously not possible for him to live with his spouse there, and therefore the spouse will get a residence permit in Denmark. However that might not be the case, if the refugee fled 15 years ago, and political conditions have changed since then, or if the spouse live in another country than the one, from which the refugee fled. If for example an iraki refugee marry someone from Turkey, the evaluation might well be, that there are no serious obstacles for him to move to Turkey and live with his spouse there.

And on the other hand there are also situations, where it is evaluated to be impossible for a danish citizen to live in the country of his foreign spouse. These situations just occur more rarely than they do for refu-gees.

On top of that danish citizens also have a right to free movement in the EU, which refugees do not. So all in all it seems quite questionable to claim, that refugees have more right, or that their situation is particularly desirable in any way.

The problem is not, that refugees are being given a preferential treatment, because that is simply not the case. The problem is the rules as such like eg. the 24-year age limit, and the lack of political willingness to evaluate such rules and their proportionality and necessity.

However if one think, that Denmark is a unique case and a very “racist” country, that is simply not true. In the UK for instance, they have just introduced an income requirement for sponsors, which is above the minimum salary excluding a large number of unskilled brites from ever qualifying for family reunification or at least making it extremely difficult, since it will require more than 1 job to do so. And compared to that a 24-year age limit is probably a less evil after all, since it tends to delay family reunification for a few years more than prevent it altogether.

fundiver199 thanks for the infos ..but i have read about the advantages that a refugee has not only to bring his wife to denmark but also to get permanent residence in denmark and i was really surprised ...a refugee gets automatically a permanent residence after 4 years of his stay in denmark without undergoing any test or fullfiling any requirements whereas others should have a full time job at least 3 years and everybody knows that forgeiners in denmark will not get a full time job no matter what ..i personally know an american girl who has a master degree in architecture from colombia univeristy in USA(where Oubama was graduated) and she could not find a job after 4 years of seeking ..which means that getting a full time job in a country like denmark is something impossible coz before u get a job ur name should be jensen or pedersen i mean a danish name and no matter what degree u have or how skilled you are .what do u call such things then if not discrimination against foreigners? a danish person has also the right to live with the person he wants in his country and why such racist conditions only against some people and not everybody ?it is as if they are asking people not to get married to who they love but to what Dansk Folke parti wants hhh...anyways they can make such rules its their countries but they should not bother us saying that we have democracy and all this stuff coz this has nothing to do with democracy at all ...why a canadian and american person is not obliged to pass this shit test A1 but others should ? do not u call that racism ? why its easy for an east european like Ukrania (and its not a member of EU) and for people from thailand to get their spouse here but they make it hard for a muslim ? if they are doing all this shit to stop immigrants then they should stop refugees instead and not people who have their wives and husbands here coz its impossible .where are all these shit world organazation of human rights ? or they are there only to serve western agendas and they dare to open their mounths only when it comes to some countries .