URGENT - Denied børnefamilieydelse for our 6 kids. Hardship!

[jayoma]

Mh ..do not try to hide sun with Sieve..everybody knows that forgeiners are panaroid in denmark ..even united nations and all human organazation are always condemning those rules Dk made for family renufication and they made them only against muslims ..it is funny how the prime minster of denmark is married to a forgeiner and he lives with her in Dk and other danish citizens can not be with their spouses only coz of these rediculous rules..what do you call attachment requirment that they made for family renufication ? is not that an act of racism ? why they made 24 years old ? why did not make such rules between danes inside the country ? ..but some lawyers like such situation coz alot of cases will be gone to the courts and alot of lawyers will be wanted ...do you know that a forgeiner in denmark can not get a job untill he changes his real name and put a danish name ? if not go and ask ..there are doctors and ingenieers in denmark better than danes but they cna not get jobs they deserve simply coz they are forgeiners ...and am not gonna be a slave like some people even if i live there and nobody will choose to live in such country if he does snot have a wife there or a husband or a refugee escaping from war ..and what u mentioned about the child benefits in denmark is the same as in spain coz life in denmark is very expensive and salaries of the majority of people are not enough to live a normal life with ..france is so better than denmark in everything if u just wanna make comparisons

[mh1]

@ jayoma, I really was not aware that ALL Americans, Canadians, Mexicans, Russians, Australians, Brazilians, Colombians and a whole lot of other countries that it would take too long to write down, but in short are not EU/EØS-countries, have become populated by Muslims?

And I was also not aware that no other EU-citizen but our Prime Minister's husband was unable to settle in DK with their Danish (or other EU-citizen) spouse.

You should not bring false accusations. True that we have politicians who are against especially Muslim immigrants. But the rules have been made without prejudice.

The current government have even gotten rid of the rule that stated that whilst for example an American citizen did not need to pass a Danish exam, an Argentinian would have to - irrespective of whether the Argentinian was a science professor who spoke 5 European languages fluently and had a 30-year long history of constant employment, and the American was a high school dropout with no knowledge of any language but English, no professional skills what-so-ever and no work experience. Now THAT was a discriminating rule.

And again - if Denmark is such a horrible place, why stay there? Go live in France. They give ok child benefits, but you pay for it by paying high income tax. You also, at least in Paris, pay as much for one loaf of bread as you do for half a kilo of cheese - which doesn't mean that the cheese is cheap, it means that the bread is really expensive. Fruit, vegetables - last time I was there, their prices were way higher than the Danish. So you REALLY need those benefits!

And if there is any place in Europe where foreigners are discriminated against, it is France. They just discriminate ALL non-French, not just people with a certain faith or dark skins. You have almost no chance of finding a job if you are not fluent in French - and even so, a very slim chance.

[fundiver199]

@Jayoma

While ÆUG and I personally is certainly against much of the current danish legislation including this ”optjeningsprincip” for børnecheck, I have to agree with mh, that the world is a lot more complicated, that you describe it. Denmark is not the only nation in Europa, or the world, where nationalistic and/or anti-immigration attitudes and legislation are abundant, and Denmark is more than just this legislation.

Try for instance to take a look at the visa application form, you need to fill out, if you are an indian citizen and want to travel to the US with transit in a british airport, that is without even leaving the airport at all. It is about 10 pages long. Seeing the content of that form might help to nuance your view, that Denmark is a far more “racist” or “paranoid” country than any other.

[jayoma]

first of all u guys have no right to tell me where to live..i am not living in denmark coz i want to .. am not that kind of men who want to spend their life under rain and snow and dark depressing weather ..am here just coz i wanna be with my wife for a while and soon we will move away even if my wife is pure danish and i have the full right to live with her regardless of the shit danish laws coz she is danish too like you guys and she has the right to bring her husband and be with her.am not also that kind of gus who does not know anything and ready to bend his head down and act like a slave and work as a cleaner of the stairs to satisfy danish gouvrnment and make him a good integrated citizen hhh..no no ..am a guy who speaks many forgein languages that the majority of danes do not speak..am a guy who has a good education and will only work with his dignity ....you guys know the truth ..you guys know that there are forgeiners who speak good danish and they have got education better than danes ..there are even doctors here ind enmark and enginners but they wont get a job simply coz of the racist laws..they would prefer to employ a spoiled danish guy who does not know anything than to a employ a foreineg simply coz he does not have the same color as danes and that his name is not pederson or jensen or any danish name.in general western people are always distrubing other countries with human rights and democracy whereas themselves they have no democracy or human rights in their countries..and u mentioned muslim countries u should know now that qatar and united arab emirates and kuwait are better than all european countries in everything and the opposite the western countires are going through a bad economic recession and degradation now and it will last for a long time..you guys should not look down on other nations coz its with their human potentiel u have built ur countries and its with their money that ur countries have stolen during colonization times that u have built ur countries with..but these revolutions nowadays in arab countries is another proof that we wont bend our heads anymore to those bastards who were gouevrning us and serve western people..the equation will compleyelt be changed after some years and u guys will see that all those refugges will leave yuour countries and go back to their countries and no more use of our Petrol and miniral resources ..there is still much to say but i guess it is enough

[mh1]

I think you misunderstand. Nobody is telling you anything about where you can live. For my part, I rhetorically stated that you could go to France (which you yourself claim is so much better than DK) to live, since you find DK so horrible.

As for how horrible a place DK is, compared to other countries:
No foreigners, married to Turkish citizens or not, are allowed to work in a great number of professions.

Until 2011 no foreign doctors were allowed to work in Turkey.

I speak several languages, which most Turkish people don't speak, and I speak Turkish. I have a diploma to prove it, as well as a Master's degree. I also have a Master's degree in law. In spite of this I am not allowed to work in Turkey as neither an attorney nor an interpreter, because I am not a Turkish citizen. Nor may I become a notary or a judge. It would not help me to take the Turkish law degree, because I would still be foreign. I may not work in a university as a research assistant, assistant professor, associate professor or professor. Not even as a part time 'okutman' (teaching just one course). All because I am not a Turkish citizen.

No foreigners can ever obtain a permanent residence permit in Turkey.

I have been harassed a great number of times, simply because I am obviously not Turkish. At my bank I was verbally abused by another customer simply because of not being Turkish.

As for the Arab countries and their treatment/welcoming of foreigners - weeeell, read this:
http://www.independent.co.uk/voices/com ... 64368.html
http://answers.yahoo.com/question/index ... 457AAwmcjV
http://qatarsucks.com/Top_10_list
http://news.kuwaittimes.net/2013/01/19/ ... in-kuwait/

And frankly - it DOES seem to me that it is YOU who are doing the 'looking down'.

[jayoma]

i know all this exsist but nobody claimed in those countries that they have so-called democracy like they pretend here..so if u go there you already know what you are going to go through..but if u are married to a person there am sure that they will treat yo like their citizens ..in denmark u do not even have the right to be with the person you love and got married to simply coz they made such brutal rules as i mentioned before as a hindrance only against non white and blond people and non christians ...anyways it was nice conversing with u Mh ..and it is normal that u will defend your country but all we want is to have the same opportunities as other danes ..and denmark should make such rules only against those forgeiners who do not wanna contribute to the country but not against everybody ..

[mh1]

@ jayoma, I think you do not read what others write.

I do not live in Denmark.

I live in Turkey.

I am married to a Turk.

This does not give me any more rights in Turkey than any other foreigner.

Foreigners in Turkey do not get work permit even if they get residence permit. Work permit is conditional of finding a job with an employer who can be permitted to employ a foreigner. There is a quota: max 1 foreigner out of each 4 employees.

A Muslim Arab from Saudi Arabia and a Muslim black from Kenya have EXACTLY the same rights, duties and opportunities in Denmark as a white Christian American has. Or a Chinese Buddhist. All of them can obtain residence permit in DK if they and their spouse fulfill clearly defined conditions. With the residence permit comes a work permit. For ANY kind of job.

For others there is a Green Card opportunity.

[fundiver199]

In general most countries outside the socalled ”western world”, that is Europe, North America, Australia and New Zealand, dont even have rules about family reunification at all. This include also countries like Thailand or China, where many danes find their spouse. So the reality is, that it is only the western countries including Denmark, that even respect the right to family life at all, when it comes to binational couples.

Although to the “exuce” of these countries, it could perhaps be said, that the lack of such legislation is due to a lack of demand for it, since the majority of eg. danish-thai cupples prefer to live in Denmark. And for those, who don`t, there are other options for the dane to stay in Thailand by eg. being an investor and running own company. But still it does put the danish rules like the 24 year age limit into a bit of perspective, doesn`t it?

A few years ago a study was published, that compared immigration policy in various european countries. And while Denmark scored bottom place shared with Ireland, when it came to the opportunities for family reunification, we actually scored above average, when it came to immigrant right.

So I definitely don’t agree with your notion, that foreigners have difficulties finding work in Denmark “because of the racist laws”. There are no “racist laws” preventing danish employers from hiring foreign engineers or doctors, so the real obstacles are all about cultural perception, problems with recognition of foreign education, language problems and general unemployment.

And about many of the laws, which effect binational cupples negatively, mainly the rules for family reunification and for permanent residenceship, these laws have been implemented exactly because many danes are tired of, what you call, “those who don’t contribute to society”.

One can be for or against those laws, and ÆUG is of course mostly against them. But I think it is important to at least recognize, that they were not implemented, because people in Denmark are “cruel”, but in an attempt to provide solutions for some of the problems, which immigration had given rise to in Denmark and in most other european countries for that matter.

The 24-year rule (and several other rules) was introduced in 2002 in an attempt to stop immigrants from arranging marriages on behalf of their children, where the main purpose of the marriage was often thought to be further immigration rather than family life. And the complicated rules for permanent residence permit requiring eg. 3 years full time work were introduced in 2007 in an attempt to improve integration of foreigners on the labour market in particular.

It is true however, that there is also a cultural and religious aspect to the danish immigration and integration debate. In essence many danes don’t like foreigners, who in their eyes come to Denmark to form “colonies”, who sometimes don’t have higher ambitions than being social clients for life time (or committing crime), and who perhaps don’t even like danish culture that much in the first place.

But is that really such an unreasonable point of view? It takes two to start a fight, and when conflicts in society like the one surrounding immigration and integration in Denmark arise, it is almost never, because only one side has contributed to this.

The populist Danish Peoples Party are surely good at stirring up emotions and making big problems out of small ones. But a case like the one about a christmas tree in an apartment block in Kokkedal didn´t do much to improve the reputation of the muslim minority in Denmark much either, did it? Or for that matter 80 young men making a raid against a hospital in Odense after a shoot-out.

And no this is not about “defending my country” nor its legislation and certainly not our politicians. I have been as mad as anyone about much of the legislation. But with time I have learned to look at this whole issue in, shall we way, a bit more nuanced way, and try to understand, why things are, like they are, instead of just being angry about it.

[jayoma]

mr fundiver ..first of all am living in denmark and you are desciribing the country as an utopia..denmark is a normal country like all other countries ( not like somalia or places where there are wars )..i will tell u somehting ..i regreted leaving my country and come to denmark even if i have a wife here who wants me here at least for some years ..do not think that everybody who is coming to denmark came from hunger and war like some refugees..i swear my life in denmark is not good at all..life is very expensive here and salaries are not even enough to live on for the majority of people here ..another thing , those people u mentioned i mean who made such troubles are all born in denmark ..so they are ( danes) and what makes them like this is danish disrminatory society and school system and everything..i live here and i know how danes treat non white people ..if u are just walking in the street they look down on you...just a few days ago a teacher told a little gurl that she is tired of muslims ...if denmark does not want more immigrants then why the hell they give refugees more permissions ? and prevent a dane from being with his spouse by making such unreachable rules ?..how can a person find a full time job for 3 years in such economic crisis as a condition to get permanent residence ? ..if u call that democracy then i will give up ... do not also forget that there thousands of danes living abroad and many danish companies in the countries where those forgeiners came from..u want them to tell those danish people and companies to leave their countries too? anyways this is a big issue and denmark should act like other european countries and make reachable and reasonable laws for family renufication ..coz u are dealing with human beings not animals and many couples lives have been turned to a real hell coz of all these illogical and unreasonable and cruel and brutal rules..

[fundiver199]

mr fundiver ..first of all am living in denmark and you are desciribing the country as an utopia..denmark is a normal country like all other countries.

How am I describing Denmark as “an utopia”? I agree, that some danes have a tendency to overvalue their country and think, it is really perfect. But I am surely not one of them, and neither are any of the other people, who have contributed to this discussion.

i regreted leaving my country and come to denmark even if i have a wife here who wants me here at least for some years ..do not think that everybody who is coming to denmark came from hunger and war like some refugees..i swear my life in denmark is not good at all.

If it is not working for you to live here, for whatever reason, then it’s a completely legitimate and sensible choise to move somewhere else. You cant change a whole country, or even a particular residential area like eg. Voldsmose or Tingbjerg. So if you are not happy, where you are, move yourself.

life is very expensive here and salaries are not even enough to live on for the majority of people here.

Prices and taxes are high, yes. But so are salaries particularly for unskilled work. Try to compare, how much a worker at McDonald is paid in Denmark vs. even other european countries like Germany, France or the UK. You might be in for a bit of a shock, when you realize, how low saleries are those other places.

another thing , those people u mentioned i mean who made such troubles are all born in denmark ..so they are ( danes) and what makes them like this is danish disrminatory society and school system and everything.

So if I am a black american, it is the fault of society, if I go out and mug an old lady, or become a drug dealer? Frankly I don’t buy this explanation, and I think it is at the core of the problem. For the sons of, say, Iraqi refugees to get a better life in Denmark, the first thing they need to do is to lay of this “victim mentality” and appreciate all the possibilities, they actually have in Denmark like free education.

They did not choose to move to Denmark with their parents, true. But really is their life here worse than the life, they would have had in Iraq, had Denmark not given their parents asylum? I really don’t think so, and if they do, then why don`t they move to Iraq? I don’t think these young men have a particularly hard time compared to the majority of the worlds population, so I am not feeling sorry for them.

i live here and i know how danes treat non white people ..if u are just walking in the street they look down on you...just a few days ago a teacher told a little gurl that she is tired of muslims.

I cant argue with you having such a feeling, since it is completely subjective. I can just say, that according to more scientific surveys, foreigners in Denmark on average fell more like “a part of society” and accepted, than they did 20 years ago, so things appear to be moving in the right direction generally.

if denmark does not want more immigrants then why the hell they give refugees more permissions ?

Because Denmark has signed a UN convention about the rights of refugees, and because Denmark is a member of the EU, which requires, among many other things, that we respect and follow this and many other UN conventions. The previous government did tighten the danish asylum policy considerably though, and as a result asylum related immigration has only made up a small part of total immigration for the past 10 years, whereas in the 1980`s and 1990`s it made up the majority of immigration to Denmark.

and prevent a dane from being with his spouse by making such unreachable rules?

As already explained ÆUG is of course against the current rules, and has spend the past 10 years trying to get them changed. However as I also explained, there were some real problems with forged marriages and marriages of convenience among some groups of immigrants, and the rules were introduced at least partly in an attempt to combat those problems.

The current government changen the rules on may 15 2012. And while to many people still have problems with even these “new” rules, the number of applications has been going up by about 50% as a result. So this is a bit of a “glass half full / half empty” discussion in my opinion.

The focus of ÆUG will naturally always be on the, say, 1.000 cupples pr. year, who have problems fulfilling all the requirements, be it because of their age or financial/social situation or whatever. But in all fairness, it must be said, that with the current rules, there is another maybe 3.500 cupples pr. year, who don’t face any major problems with their family reunification in Denmark. So its not like family reunification is completely “impossible” for everybody because of these rules.

The group facing by far the greatest difficulties in general are sponsors, who came to Denmark as immigrants themselfes. But if we try to look at the other side of the coin for just a moment, is it really the duty of Denmark to secure the right to family life for those people, if they want to marry a spouse from typically their home country?

If an indian woman come to Denmark due to family reunification with a danish man, get a permanent residence permit, get divorced and then marry someone from India, is it really that unreasonable to ask that cupple to live together in India? They might prefer to live in Denmark for financial or other reasons, but does that really give Denmark an obligation to allow them to do it, just because they like? Not according to the European Court of Human Rights. And I have to say, that even as an “activist” in this area, I somewhat agree with that point of view on a principle level.

Then there are the majority of sponsors like your wife, who have lived all or most of their life in Denmark. And in this situation I agree, that it is generally not reasonable to say, that she can “just” move to your home country and live there. Because unless the applicant is from another western country like the US or Australia, that is often not a realistic opportunity at all.

These sporsors are almost always danish citizens though, and for that reason many of them have been able to solve the problem by moving to another EU-country. This is certainly not an ideal solution, and it does not make much sence at all, that danish citizens have fewer rights in Denmark than in the rest of the EU.

But it does mean, that the danish rules have generally not prevented those danish citizens, who really wish to do it, to live together with their spouse. It has “only” forced a number of them to do so in typically Sweden, at least for maybe 6 month or so. And therefore, realistically, this is not the most serious human rights issue in the world at the moment, even though it has sometimes been portrayed that way in the danish domestic debate.

how can a person find a full time job for 3 years in such economic crisis as a condition to get permanent residence?

Unemployment is about 6% in Denmark, so 94% have a job. I think it will be difficult for most marriage migrants like yourself to fulfill the requirement within your first 5 years in Denmark. But this just mean, that you need to wait a bit longer perhaps 6 or 7 years or whatever. And no that’s not nice, but its not the end of the world either in my opinion.

The danish rules in this area are far less advantageous than those of other European countries. But like the taxes and the weather its just something, you need to accept, if you want to live here, since currently there is nowhere near a majority in parliament to change it.

if u call that democracy then i will give up

Sure its democracy. Democracy mean, that the majority get things, the way they want, and that’s exactly the case here. Just because you or I disagree with the majority, doesn´t mean its not a democratic decision, they made. I might also disagree with the speed limits or the taxes or the ban on smoking marihuana or many other things, but that doesn`t mean, Denmark is not a democracy.

[storfamilie]

Thanks to the EU, they had to revert the law!!

http://nyhederne.tv2.dk/article.php/id- ... penge.html

I don't know how I missed this before, but was told today that this had happened when I called Udbetaling Danmark. Everyone will get paid retroactively,too