EU Laws: Rights of the non-EU spouse while waiting

This forum is dedicated to all our English-speaking members.
Please feel free to ask your questions here!
moriro
Indlæg: 6
Tilmeldt: 27.07.2017 08:21:56

EU Laws: Rights of the non-EU spouse while waiting

Indlæg af moriro » 27.07.2017 09:16:11

Dear ÆUG's Community,

I would like to shortly tell you my story. I'm a non-EU citzen and have lived for 9 months in Germany with my boyfriend before coming with him to Denmark. We were aware that it wouldn't be simple for me to get a residence permit here, so we got married one month before his return to Denmark, and entered the process of Family Reunification under EU Laws about a month ago. Resuming, when we applied for the process, we were married for 1 month, have lived together for 9 months in the same address and my husband fufill all the other requirements of employment, efective residence, etc, that we have extensively read at the oficial websites.

The day we applied we got a confirmation of receipt that says the following:
"The State Administration points out that members, who are third country nationals, are only entitled to work during the processing of the application if the conditions of the EU Residency Order are met. In some cases there may be criminal liability for working illegally if the case examination shows that the applicant does not qualify for legal residency in Denmark. (...)".

I was left with so many doubts that unfortunatelly weren't answer by the responsible person, such as:

- Is it up to me to decide if I meet the conditions and take this risk?
- We tecnically meet all the conditions, but there are some subjective matters, for exemple, the fact that we were married for a short time before applying, that I don't know how it will be interprateted by them. Do you have any experience with cases where people were recently married (around a month) when applying and that was an issue?
- I have been accepted in a masters degree here in Denmark, what are my chances of starting it before receiving the decision from the State's Administration? Do I have rights to start because I already applied for the family reunification, or do I have to wait for the decision?
- Do I have the right of attending a danish course while waiting?
- Let's say I need medical assistence, do I have rights for it or would I have to pay privately?
- Do you know anything, anywhere I can get concrete information about my rights while waiting for this process?

Knowing that it can take up to 6 months and I didn't even get clarifications about my condiditions and rights while waiting all this time, is very frustrating.

I hope you could understand my situation and give me some light!

Thank you very much!

skaanebo
Indlæg: 11657
Tilmeldt: 09.06.2007 19:00:10

Re: EU Laws: Rights of the non-EU spouse while waiting

Indlæg af skaanebo » 27.07.2017 09:25:58

I think you worry for no reason.

You should go to Borgerservice to apply for a Danish personal number and to be registered with your address in Denmark. You might have to provide the same kind of documentation that you gave to Statsforvaltningen.

If you have a job on hand and can't wait for the registration at Borgerservice, you can also obtain a tax number from Skat and start work right away.

To obtain a residence card from Statsforvaltningen might take up to 6 months.

Without a Danish personal number, you will have to pay for any medical treatment yourself. You will also need a personal number in order to sign up for free Danish tuition.

moriro
Indlæg: 6
Tilmeldt: 27.07.2017 08:21:56

Re: EU Laws: Rights of the non-EU spouse while waiting

Indlæg af moriro » 27.07.2017 10:39:36

I can't get a CPR number in a Borger's office without having the residence permit. That's what I have been reading everywhere.

skaanebo
Indlæg: 11657
Tilmeldt: 09.06.2007 19:00:10

Re: EU Laws: Rights of the non-EU spouse while waiting

Indlæg af skaanebo » 27.07.2017 10:43:44

Actually, under EU laws you are entitled to be registered at Borgerservice. I'm well aware you may have to fight for this to be enforced but it is your right.

And you will not get a residence permit, anyhow. What you have applied for at Statsforvaltningen is merely a residence card that will prove that you have the right of residence. It's not the same thing as a residence permit since residence permits are only given under national Danish laws.

moriro
Indlæg: 6
Tilmeldt: 27.07.2017 08:21:56

Re: EU Laws: Rights of the non-EU spouse while waiting

Indlæg af moriro » 27.07.2017 11:01:13

Ok, thank you very much for this information.
Do you know where I can find this information officially written? So then I can use this in my favor? I have the impression that people are not aware of that...or they don't want us to know!

Thanks once again.

skaanebo
Indlæg: 11657
Tilmeldt: 09.06.2007 19:00:10

Re: EU Laws: Rights of the non-EU spouse while waiting

Indlæg af skaanebo » 27.07.2017 11:15:05

You can find the EU directive and other information on its enforcement here:

http://eur-lex.europa.eu/legal-content/ ... 32004L0038

http://eur-lex.europa.eu/legal-content/ ... 13&from=DA

uglelem
Indlæg: 18
Tilmeldt: 04.01.2017 19:37:13

Re: EU Laws: Rights of the non-EU spouse while waiting

Indlæg af uglelem » 27.07.2017 14:03:12

Hej Skaanebo,
vi har lige haft ringet til statsforvaltningen og hun vidste intet som helst. Hun kunne svare os på, at så længe vi ikke har fået opholdskortet (dvs., vi har søgt om det, men stadig ikke fået en dom), så kan vi ikke få noget cpr-nummer.
Damen havde heller intet hørt om, at vi har de samme rettigheder så snart vi sender ansøgningen ind. Det føles meget som, at de virkelig undgår alt der har med denne proces at gøre.. Vil jeg kunne finde nogle præcise love, der beskriver hvad vi har rettigheder til eller ikke, på de 2 links som du har sendt tidligere i denne tråd?

fundiver199
Indlæg: 15459
Tilmeldt: 15.07.2008 15:58:34

Re: EU Laws: Rights of the non-EU spouse while waiting

Indlæg af fundiver199 » 28.07.2017 04:58:40

The problem is, that CPR-loven in Denmark has still not really incorporated directive 2004/38 EU, even its 13 years old. It talk about "recidence permit or proff" as a precondition for CPR registrering for anyone other than Nordic citizens.

So while it has been possible for some (after persuation) to start language classes, get a temporary CPR or tax CPR, so they can work, and even a health insurance card (gult sygesikringsbevis), an actual CPR number has to wait for the residence card from Statsforvaltningen.

Its questionable, if this is in accordance with the directive, but never the less its how it is. And somehow I also cant help but think, that this would be much less of a problem, if only Statsforvaltningen would speed up. I have no idea, why it has to take them 6 month to issue a residence card, but unfortunatly it does in most of these "secondary free movement" cases.

evc
Indlæg: 128
Tilmeldt: 05.04.2015 23:00:38

Re: EU Laws: Rights of the non-EU spouse while waiting

Indlæg af evc » 28.07.2017 17:30:10

Can't you give him the paragraph of the law, so he can print it out and show it to them?

This ignorance at these establishments baffles me. People are prived of their rights because some attendants don't get the proper orientation.

patriklk
Indlæg: 21
Tilmeldt: 18.06.2017 06:22:55

Re: EU Laws: Rights of the non-EU spouse while waiting

Indlæg af patriklk » 05.10.2017 13:35:21

What's the specific paragraph that allows those waiting for a residence card the right to a temporary CPR number? Sorry but I can't find it.

moriro
Indlæg: 6
Tilmeldt: 27.07.2017 08:21:56

Re: EU Laws: Rights of the non-EU spouse while waiting

Indlæg af moriro » 05.10.2017 14:15:55

Hi, I'm the author of the post and I am here to update whoever is interested on the subject.

I read the links that were sent to me here about the right of getting a CPR number while waiting for the process, but honestly these links say nothing about it. The person who sent them here also didn't show me the explicit paragraph, unfortunatelly.

I'm here for 3 months now and still didnt't get any answer or any contact from the authorities about my case. We called them a couple of times and all they said is that I should expect to have the answer close to the deadline (6 months), because they are very busy. We have talked with a lot of people, including people in the Kommune of Aalborg that were trying to help, but they all say that I don't have the right to get a CPR and neither start the Danish courses before having the answer about my case. I could however start working if I got hired, but the chances of a company hiring someone that might have to leave the country in a few months because he/she got the right of residence denied are close to zero.

The only place I read about people that got a CPR number and started the danish courses while waiting for the process was here in this forum, but there is no clear information on how to do it. Perhaps hiring a lawyer could be of some help, if you have the money for it. I don't, so I decided to wait.

What I can recommend people in the same situation as me is to be pacient. Denmark has a lot to offer even if you don't have the CPR number. For exemple, here in Aalborg I found a group of volunteers that gives danish classes for free; I've been attending seminars and meetings held by "Work in Denmark", got my CV reviewd and nice tips on how to get into the danish labor market; I started a volunteer job, where I don't get payed but meet a lot of people, grow my network, learn Danish and upgrade my CV... there is lots of options for volunteering in DK. And about the medical situation, I didn't need it so far. But in case you need, you should ask your Danish spouse to make an appointment in their name and then join them at the doctor. Many doctors understand the situation and examine you for free in your husbands name. Some might not be that nice, but then you can pay and it is about 300 dkk for visiting a doctor. However I still worry about the case of an accident or some serious health issue...

I hope to help who is the same situation and if you know of something that I didn't write above, please let me know.

evc
Indlæg: 128
Tilmeldt: 05.04.2015 23:00:38

Re: EU Laws: Rights of the non-EU spouse while waiting

Indlæg af evc » 05.10.2017 20:24:33

Thanks for the update.

Just to make clear for people reading this topic: volunteer job is also illegal. I don't think the rules are different from EU applicants and narionals. But in the national rules it is stated that you must not engage in any kind of work, not even volunteer. I would keep a low profile with that job if I were you.

skaanebo
Indlæg: 11657
Tilmeldt: 09.06.2007 19:00:10

Re: EU Laws: Rights of the non-EU spouse while waiting

Indlæg af skaanebo » 05.10.2017 20:39:19

The laws ARE INDEED different between national Danish laws and EU laws.

If you apply under EU laws, the authorities are not allowed to obstruct your rights and your rights are immediate and in no way dependent on you having a residence card. So under EU laws you can work, you can be registered and you can do anything you like as long as you have handed in your application for a residence card.

But not so under national Danish laws.

moriro
Indlæg: 6
Tilmeldt: 27.07.2017 08:21:56

Re: EU Laws: Rights of the non-EU spouse while waiting

Indlæg af moriro » 05.10.2017 20:45:55

Volunteering is allowed for applicants under the EU Laws. I can't say anything about the national laws though.
I am even allowed to regular payed work, as It says on the letter I received from the authorities after I applied. The difficulty is to find a company that would hire someone under these conditions.

moriro
Indlæg: 6
Tilmeldt: 27.07.2017 08:21:56

Re: EU Laws: Rights of the non-EU spouse while waiting

Indlæg af moriro » 05.10.2017 20:49:56

Skaanebo, I would really like to know how people are able to register, get a CPR and have a normal life right after Handing in the application, if all the authorities in Aalborg, including Borgers office, International Office and Statsforvaltningen are telling me I can't get a CPR until I get the final result from the case.

Besvar