Permanent residence and Spouse

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usman_fast
Indlæg: 3
Tilmeldt: 29.09.2012 16:09:02

Permanent residence and Spouse

Indlæg af usman_fast » 29.09.2012 16:16:30

Hi Everbody,

I have just got permanent residence based on work. I am in denmark for last 4 years and working as Software solution consultant since then. A week before i got my Permanent residence but then I got to know that I cannot bring my wife in denmark from pakistan for 3 years. Immigration office confirmed that rule when I called them. And solution they gave is to apply for visit visa. That doesnt sound like a solution. I am getting married in 2 months. Could any of you please suggest me a way out of this problem so that I could bring her here.

Thanking you !!!

mh
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Re: Permanent residence and Spouse

Indlæg af mh » 29.09.2012 21:45:37

If your job is on the list you find here:

https://www.nyidanmark.dk/da-dk/Ophold/ ... ersigt.htm

you will be able to get your wife to DK sooner. However, the interpretation of whether a job which is only similar to one of those on the list can be considered as equal = a 'positiv' job, is very strict.
mh

usman_fast
Indlæg: 3
Tilmeldt: 29.09.2012 16:09:02

Re: Permanent residence and Spouse

Indlæg af usman_fast » 30.09.2012 11:17:44

Thx for the reply. My job is in positive list. However it is written in this link under section
"Yderligere krav i de tilfælde, hvor ægtefællen i Danmark ikke er dansk/nordisk statsborger" that I should have hold permanent residence for 3 years. And when I called immigration office, he straight forwardly said, you should be here for 3 years after permanent residence and didnt mention about +ve list.

https://www.nyidanmark.dk/da-dk/Ophold/ ... aeller.htm

However I could see under this link that attachment requirement is waived off if my job is in +ve list. But does this waives off 3 years living after residence permit requirement as well?

http://www.nyidanmark.dk/da-dk/Ophold/f ... ngskravet/

Best Regards
Muhammad Usman

mh
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Re: Permanent residence and Spouse

Indlæg af mh » 30.09.2012 16:34:30

Quoting from the English page ( https://www.nyidanmark.dk/Templates/Sub ... odifyGuest ):
"Family members

If you hold a residence and work permit under the Positive List, your spouse, registered partner or cohabiting partner, as well as any children under the age of 18 who are living at home with you, are also eligible for residence permits. Your family members must be able to support themselves and you must live together in Denmark at the same address. Your spouse, registered partner or cohabiting partner is allowed to work full-time for the entire period his or her permit is valid."

As I understand it, since you MIGHT AS WELL have a residence permit according to the Positive List, you may bring your wife to DK under the rule above. Once she is in DK 'all' you have to do is keep your job for 3 years.
mh

fundiver199
Indlæg: 15459
Tilmeldt: 15.07.2008 15:58:34

Re: Permanent residence and Spouse

Indlæg af fundiver199 » 01.10.2012 08:52:45

This is a very interesting topic. If you hold a residence permit for the purpose of working in Denmark, your spouse can get a residence permit as “accompanying family”, like mh say, which is in reality also family reunification even its not labelled so.

However I am not sure, if that is still possible, when your residence permit has been made permanent, since that mean it is now unconditional and not depending on your status as worker. So there might in fact be a 3 year period, where it is not possible for you to obtain family reunification due to the condition in Udlændingelovens §9, that a non danish citizen, who is not a refugee, must have had permanent residence permit for 3 years.

If I was in your situation, I would look into, if it is still possible for your wife to apply as “accompanying family”, even your residence permit is now permanent. And please report back the result in forum, so we can all learn more.

If it is not possible for your wife to apply as “accompanying family”, I think we should try to get your story in the media to put some pressure on the politicians to change these absurd laws, that “punish” immigrants for getting so well integrated in danish society, that they qualify for a permanent residence permit. ÆUG have contacts in the media, that will surely be willing to tell this story.

Below I have posted a link to the application form for “accompanying family”. And if it is not possible to find out any other way, if you qualify or not, just fill it out, pay the application fee and hand it in, then we will all know in about 3 month time:

http://www.nyidanmark.dk/NR/rdonlyres/F ... spouse.pdf

However I think Styrelsen for Fastholdelse and Rekruttering should be able to answer such a relatively simple question as that. So you might also just ask them, preferably by email, and then forward the answer to ÆUG, when you get it.

You might ask like this:

“Kære Styrelse for rekruttering og fastholdelse

Jeg kom til Danmark i (årstal) med det formål at arbejde og fik opholdstilladelse efter (f.eks. beløbsordningen, positivlisten etc.) Min opholdstilladelse blev gjort tidsubegrænset (dato). Kan min kone søge opholdstilladelse som medfølgende familiemedlem ved at udfylde blanketten FA8? Eller ophørte den mulighed, da min opholdstilladelse blev gjort tidsubegrænset?

Med venlig hilsen,

(Navn)”

mh
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Re: Permanent residence and Spouse

Indlæg af mh » 01.10.2012 12:47:07

:!: YAY :!: I thought there must be something:
https://www.nyidanmark.dk/NR/rdonlyres/ ... kravet.pdf

According to this you should DEFINITELY be able to get your spouse to DK :D

Unfortunately the text is not to be found in English, but perhaps you may copy it into your text-program and put especially page 7-8 through google-translate (or better program if you know of one).
mh

fundiver199
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Re: Permanent residence and Spouse

Indlæg af fundiver199 » 01.10.2012 12:59:18

@mh

That note is about family reunification Udlændingeloven §9. And even though tilknytningskravet and 24-års reglen will not be an obstacle because of the possibility of an exception, it is also a fundamental requirement in §9 that the sponsor:

a) is a danish or nordic citizen,
b) is a refugee or
c) has had permanent residenceship for at least 3 years

Family reunification Udlændingeloven §9 is therefore not a possibility, when the permanent residence permit is less than 3 years old. And that leaves only the paralel rules for "accompanying family" as an option.

The question then is, if a sponsor can still use the rules for "accompanying family", if he originally entered Denmark to work here, or if that possibility cease at the moment, when he recieve a permanent residence permit.

If it doens`t cease at the moment, he get permanent residence permit, then immigrants with the same legal status in Denmark will have different oppurtunities for family reunification depending on their past legal status, which would seem somewhat odd and unfair.

And on the other hand if it does cease, that leaves a "hole" of 3 year duration, where an immigrant can use neither of the two set of rules to get his or her spouse to Denmark, which also seems quite odd.

I suspect that the latter is the case, and in my opinion it just highlights the absurdity in having two different set of rules for family reunification, where the set of rules, which mainly targets sponsors, who are danish citizens, is by far the most restrictive.

mh
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Re: Permanent residence and Spouse

Indlæg af mh » 01.10.2012 19:34:30

@ fundiver, I find that this from page 5 about § 9c:
"Efter bemærkningerne til bestemmelsen kan der blandt andet i ganske særlige tilfælde efter en helt konkret vurdering meddeles tilladelse til familiesammenføring i tilfælde, hvor familiesammenføring ikke er mulig efter de gældende bestemmelser i udlændingelovens § 9, stk. 1."

MUST be interpreted to the benefit of usman_fast.

Anything else would be against legal method and interpretation. Or at least the legal method and interpretation that was taught to me ...
mh

fundiver199
Indlæg: 15459
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Re: Permanent residence and Spouse

Indlæg af fundiver199 » 02.10.2012 12:26:56

@mh

I quote:

"6. Udlændingelovens § 9 c – praksis, når den herboende har opholdstilladelse efter § 9 a
Der kunne efter praksis efter udlændingelovens dagældende § 9, stk. 2, nr. 4, gives opholdstilladelse til en herboende udlændings ægtefælle eller faste samlever, såfremt den herboende har tidsbegrænset opholdstilladelse efter udlændingelovens dagældende § 9 stk. 2, nr. 3, med henblik på beskæftigelse og er omfattet af en praksis, hvorefter opholdstilladelsen kan gives for indtil tre år."

mh
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Re: Permanent residence and Spouse

Indlæg af mh » 02.10.2012 13:33:23

@ fundiver, I know and read that.

What I mean is that the SPIRIT of this article is to make it easier for certain groups to get both residence permit and family reunion, so the SPIRIT as is expressed in my quote must apply also to a person who has a permanent residence permit, when he or she has a job on the Positive List. It would be against both legal principles, method, interpretation as well as against common sense if not. Even though the note I am quoting was written during the time when Lene Espersen was minister of law, and was a disaster as such, still she could not abolish known legal principles, method or interpretation.
mh

fundiver199
Indlæg: 15459
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Re: Permanent residence and Spouse

Indlæg af fundiver199 » 02.10.2012 18:20:19

I think you are expecting to much mh. When the rules of labour migration was liberated further in 2007, the practice for excepting from the 24-year rule and attachment demand was not expanded similarly. And this means, that there are now several examples of danish citizens, who have been forced to leave Denmark, because their spouse can not get a residence permit, even though they work in a position, which could easily give a labour migrant residence permit in Denmark for himself as well as his family after e.g. beløbsordningen.

So when danish citizens are discriminated against in this way, then why not immigrants, who have gained a permanent residence permit? What is the difference in your opinion, which dictate, that a immigrant with a permanent residence permit should be treated any better than a danish citizen?

As I see it all logic has since long been trown out the window along with fairness and good administrative practices, since this is now purely a matter of politicians fighting for power and an administration running along with their game.

usman_fast
Indlæg: 3
Tilmeldt: 29.09.2012 16:09:02

Re: Permanent residence and Spouse

Indlæg af usman_fast » 07.10.2012 11:45:09

@Fundiver,

I think its a really good idea to write the immigration office and find out if my wife could apply on "Accompanying family" visa. I will write them today and will post back the outcome as soon as I get the response back.

I was having a thought to write to justice ministry about the whole episode. However, I would try to get the response from Immigration office first about the accompanying family visa and then take the next step.

Best Regards
Muhammad Usman

Irum
Indlæg: 74
Tilmeldt: 07.09.2017 18:15:58

Re: Permanent residence and Spouse

Indlæg af Irum » 22.12.2018 18:44:18

is it possible to get accompanying family visa after permanent residence permit matured?

mh
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Re: Permanent residence and Spouse

Indlæg af mh » 23.12.2018 16:15:31

If your spouse (= 'sponsor') originally got a residence permit based on his/her job, and has now obtained permanent residence, it is.

https://www.nyidanmark.dk/en-GB/You-wan ... anyouapply
mh

Irum
Indlæg: 74
Tilmeldt: 07.09.2017 18:15:58

Re: Permanent residence and Spouse

Indlæg af Irum » 23.12.2018 20:16:22

mh skrev:
23.12.2018 16:15:31
If your spouse (= 'sponsor') originally got a residence permit based on his/her job, and has now obtained permanent residence, it is.

https://www.nyidanmark.dk/en-GB/You-wan ... anyouapply
what if the spouse is on positive list?

Besvar